Curse

Bobby2 · Dec 04, 2007, 09:08 PM // 21:08

HotO = IMO not worth it, I'd take DB. Cripple being removed isn't such a big deal what with BMT having only a 4s recharge, so TO will likely be enough to keep up the KD chain.

Big no-no: you cast MoI. Target runs away. You cannot catch up! In builds without shadowstepping (eg linebackers) I feel one MUST take Dash/Siphon Speed or suchlike.

Lorde · Dec 04, 2007, 09:10 PM // 21:10

How you manage to, you know... survive?

I am stomped if I dont have a regen and a block all the time going melee with a sin.

Yanman.be · Dec 04, 2007, 09:15 PM // 21:15

Going leeroy vs not going leeroy makes a huge difference. I warriortrain like a dervish and kite like a monk.

ensoriki · Dec 04, 2007, 09:21 PM // 21:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by dan-the-noob

Yanman has got to be the biggest retard ever. Period.

Has Guru forgotten the stupidity that is Ensoriki?
This cannot be tolerated. Mokone Tell em who the real retard is!

Anyways

[skill]Mark of Instability[/skill]
[skill]Black Mantis Thrust[/skill]
[skill]Exhausting Assault[/skill]
Falling Lotus Strike
Trampling Ox
[skill]Moebius Strike[/skill]
[skill]Horns of the Ox[/skill]
[skill]Resurrection Signet[/skill]

Falling Lotus manages your Energy so +1 point.
Moebius Horns knockdown, not original but no point loss on this.
MoI = + point I like that skill
BmS + point snare and low recharge.
Exhausting assault = fine.
Trampling ox synergizing with both BMS and MS

3 KD, MOI will let Trampling Ox work even if the foe is not crippled = good.

Now time for me to bitch.
3 dual attacks, your Bar compression is horrendous you have nothing that will serve you any use out of melee range But your rez sig which is a 1 time use.
Warriors have a self heal or a IMS to serve them out of melee range.
You have nothing, you can say you will snare, but any player worth their salt will kite you before you do anything to them.
You don't need to Snare for your combo to work, This is a good thing, but if you don't snare you can run into problems even with KD.
All those slots and the SP sin still serves better in pretty much every way

SP Sin has a Full range snare and Shadow step and a Hex for BMS and 1/4 cast (Oh shit!) You have a melee snare and no IMS
Sp sin has A frightening spike that may or may not have a kD
You have virtually no Spike with Many KD's and a possibility for an unlimited KD chain (if they go down to 50% hp)

Sp sin does not have energy management (except for Way of the Lotus)
You have E-management.

No IMS OR shadowstep, In Factions PVP this isn't a problem in any other form of pvp it is (except probably RA)
The thing that redeems that is your snare and KD's, the problem is How do you get to an intelligent foe who is watching the battle field?

6/10....its not a horrible build...its not exactly average (what I deem 5/10)
it justs needs improvements.

I get your not the SP sin (>.> none of my builds are =P)
but im comparing it to something very frequent.

Now to be straight.

You don't need all that KD, removing MOI, for either.

Siphon Speed or adding a self defense skill (or Disrupting dagger/stab) or an IMS
and changing BMS to Leaping Mantis Sting.
Will open up so much more to you.

You already have 2 KD skills, Considering your the Assassin King (but im emperor) landing LmS conditional snare should be no problem for you, and thus you will get this

1 less KD but more damage (LPS is a tad stronger =P
You can substitute GLS for Jungle Strike
Ah but there would be a bit of an energy dilemna.
Way of the lotus can fix that for you if you decide to take that.

AS far as I know the previous Yan had only 2 KD's but more damage.
Go back to 2 KD's (remove GLS if you can)
And your set.

Another option is to change MBS for Iron Palm (just to get off a lead)
And add hidden caltrops (sue me for suggesting)

Honestly you don't even NEED Hoto, Just keep em crippled and Trampling Moebius will work.

God why do I make such long posts.....must be because im retarded.

Yanman.be · Dec 04, 2007, 09:30 PM // 21:30

You shouldn't compare this to SP sin. The SP sin shuts down by killing, I shut down by kding...perhaps killing is better, however.

ensoriki · Dec 04, 2007, 09:36 PM // 21:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yanman.be

You shouldn't compare this to SP sin. The SP sin shuts down by killing, I shut down by kding...perhaps killing is better, however.

I did edit my post (quickly after, so you may of missed it)

that Im just comparing it so something commonly used.
Then I also added what you could change =P

No your build in a way can be better then SP sin.

Through KD you can serve more utility to your team since Moebius Lets you constantly keep attacking.
The SP sin has a 25 (now) time out where he is barely worth anything.
Where as you will constantly be giving out KD's to team's serving somewhat as an interrupted and such.

This build has it's uses but it needs tweaks, otherwise the true potential it can serve will be smothered out.

Ares Ainia · Dec 04, 2007, 09:38 PM // 21:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yanman.be

You shouldn't compare this to SP sin. The SP sin shuts down by killing, I shut down by kding...perhaps killing is better, however.

I'm pretty sure assassins are made to pop in, kill and gtfo?

ensoriki · Dec 04, 2007, 09:42 PM // 21:42

The SP sin didn't exist until 1 year ago, while the assassin class has existed for longer then that.

Before SP BOA there were more original sin ideas.
Now ideas are being slandered for not being similar.
Thats not right.

Thusd P, I said some positive things about his build =P

Its good to say that instead of saying something sucks =P

Bobby2 · Dec 04, 2007, 09:43 PM // 21:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bobby2

HotO = IMO not worth it, I'd take DB. Cripple being removed isn't such a big deal what with BMT having only a 4s recharge, so TO will likely be enough to keep up the KD chain.

Big no-no: you cast MoI. Target runs away. You cannot catch up! In builds without shadowstepping (eg linebackers) I feel one MUST take Dash/Siphon Speed or suchlike.

Counter-arguments, please?

Pyro maniac · Dec 04, 2007, 09:47 PM // 21:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by ensoriki

The SP sin didn't exist until 1 year ago, while the assassin class has existed for longer then that.

Before SP BOA there were more original sin ideas.
Now ideas are being slandered for not being similar.
Thats not right.

Thusd P, I said some positive things about his build =P

Its good to say that instead of saying something sucks =P

No, all sin builds are a 1-2-3-4-5-6-7 combo, hoping that target will be dead.

and more original? You can count the succesfull meta-builds on one hand:
AoD shock
Sprison
SA
Moebius DB spam
1 I sure forgot

Yanman.be · Dec 04, 2007, 09:47 PM // 21:47

It's a Yanssassin remake, which existsvsince Factions release ( add a month or so ).

The original Yanssassin doesn't work anymore. This build has better kd capabilities, but decreased damage.

ensoriki · Dec 04, 2007, 09:52 PM // 21:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pyro maniac

No, all sin builds are a 1-2-3-4-5-6-7 combo, hoping that target will be dead.

and more original? You can count the succesfull meta-builds on one hand:
AoD shock
Sprison
SA
Moebius DB spam
1 I sure forgot

The 1 you forgot is probably Caster Spam.

Now Pyromaniac.
Generally in my defense to the 1-7 spam.

I use Pre-nightfall experience.
Where there was much less of that in generally, yes AoD (or hot stepper) sin existed,but overall assassin's had a lot more leeway in creating builds without being flamed.

When people compare his build to the SP sin they fail to list anything positive.
People also say his bad is build without explaining why, making it harder to improve then without constructive criticism.

Less popular guilds have run Sin Builds not of those 5 and won matches, while this will mean little to you as they are Less popular guilds, those builds probably did not catch on because
1) they were not exposed as much (like pvxwiki bs)
2) The guild converted to the above builds shortly afterwards
3) It wasn't brain dead enough.

Now back to yan's topic.

Yan I personally believe you should remove MoI if anything!
Removing GLS most likely will not hurt you significantly since you claim to be adept at making builds.

yan's original build is before nightfall (right?)
Thus it was 1 of the builds that had Leeway to not be flamed because it wasn't SP sin (which didn't exist)

Pyro maniac · Dec 04, 2007, 10:18 PM // 22:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by ensoriki

The 1 you forgot is probably Caster Spam.

Now Pyromaniac.
Generally in my defense to the 1-7 spam.

I use Pre-nightfall experience.
Where there was much less of that in generally, yes AoD (or hot stepper) sin existed,but overall assassin's had a lot more leeway in creating builds without being flamed.

When people compare his build to the SP sin they fail to list anything positive.
People also say his bad is build without explaining why, making it harder to improve then without constructive criticism.

Now back to yan's topic.

Yan I personally believe you should remove MoI if anything!
Removing GLS most likely will not hurt you significantly since you claim to be adept at making builds.

yan's original build is before nightfall (right?)
Thus it was 1 of the builds that had Leeway to not be flamed because it wasn't SP sin (which didn't exist)

your point is?

the build is good, an assassin has got 3 good elites, you can't be original with that and I haven't flamed him because of that

Quote:

Originally Posted by ensoriki

Less popular guilds have run Sin Builds not of those 5 and won matches, while this will mean little to you as they are Less popular guilds, those builds probably did not catch on because
1) they were not exposed as much (like pvxwiki bs)
2) The guild converted to the above builds shortly afterwards
3) It wasn't brain dead enough.

popular meta builds ..
you just stated they weren't popular and inferior compared to other builds

Yanman.be · Dec 04, 2007, 10:25 PM // 22:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bobby2

Counter-arguments, please?

Counter-arguments? Cast MoI when you know you can

It's not needed most of the time. There are no real counter-arguments, because it seems I play my sin different than most people. In a 4vs4 arena, I quickly scout the opposite team for the biggest threat or weakest link ( Another assassin, a monk, or perhaps that juicy ele? ) Then I decide how one should approach this situation. I quickly check what my team has to offer ( additional hexes? more kd's? ). I proceed with the correct combo and strategy needed for total victory. I adjust it on the fly, offcourse.

ensoriki · Dec 04, 2007, 10:38 PM // 22:38

Isnt MOI actually needed since BMS needs a hex?
Otherwise having Trampling ox is almost a waste of time dont you think Since you won't snare them.
Sure if your team has hexes to support it.

But what about when your team is busy with something? Your dependent on your team to make your build work.

Yanman.be · Dec 04, 2007, 10:40 PM // 22:40

BMS doesn't need a hex, I go <clean target> bmt-ea-ms-any dual-ms-any dual and by that time target should either be: Dead, below 50%, or MoI should have recharged for a full chain.

ensoriki · Dec 04, 2007, 10:42 PM // 22:42

I just wish you'd put either

A range snare(siphon speed) / IMS

So that your build is a bit more flexible.

Bobby2 · Dec 04, 2007, 10:46 PM // 22:46

I'm 100% with Enso on that one.

Quote:

Cast MoI when you know you can

This means you have to absolutely know whether he will stop running from you in the next 20 seconds XD

Quote:

I go <clean target> bms-ea-ms-any dual-ms-any dual

Let me rephrase:

you go <clean target> bmT!!!-ea-ms-{Horns/Trampling}-ms-{Other Ox}

which isn't going to kill anything on its own!

ACreator · Dec 04, 2007, 10:56 PM // 22:56

point 1-
Mark of instability so u can KD with exausting.....

why??? u dont need KD because u already interrupt, u waste a slot that could use do a decent fast recharging hex like siphon speed to always ensure that u cause cripple for the trampling ox....

point 2

I think all the wining about the how overpowered is an IAS on sin is because they actualy rule!!!

still I dont see one..

point 3

no survival skills...

point 4

why HoTO when moebius recharges ur trampling ox for more KD??

another good slot for an IAS like flurry!

point 5
why make a sucessor of the Yansin if even the 1st build wasnt that good.

summing..

6/10 = /fail

ensoriki · Dec 04, 2007, 11:02 PM // 23:02

Revamp of your build

[card]Dash[/card]
[skill]Leaping Mantis Sting[/skill]
[skill]Exhausting Assault[/skill]
Falling Lotus Strike
Trampling Ox
[skill]Moebius Strike[/skill]
[skill]Horns of the Ox[/skill]
[skill]Resurrection Signet[/skill]

Still works fine you just dont use FLS until after you KD.

Now you have dash and kite, chase,reach your target

All at the same time as having a snare (LMS)
A Assassin god father such as yourself will have no problem using LMS.

Or

[skill]Dash[/skill]
[skill]Leaping mantis Sting[/skill]
[skill]Exhausting Assault[/skill]
[skill]Disrupting Stab[/skill] or [skill]Disrupting Dagger[/skill] OR [skill]Feigned Neutrality[/card]
Trampling Ox
[skill]Moebius Strike[/skill]
[skill]Horns of the Ox[/skill]
[skill]Resurrection Signet[/skill]

This change makes your more adept at doing its purpose (catching targets and snaring them)

you can also take a range interrupt (DisD) to stop people from casting something on you when your almost to them. OR you can disable attack skills when you dont need the snare and want to follow with exhausting Assault

OR (god saying or is pissing me off) you can take feigned/Shadow Refuge/Heart of shadow (>.> I like HoS sue me)

And boost your survival a bit.

or just put siphon speed